Sunday, May 11, 2014

TIME & ETERNITY, HEAVEN, HELL

Theories about nothingness, reincarnation, heaven, & hell.


Have you read what Tom Wright has written about Heaven and Hell, and everything in between, in his book 'Surprised by Hope.' Good thinking and worth reading before putting pen to paper.

~~


Remember how Pope Francis ended his address to the journalists in Rome with a blessing with a difference:
"I told you I was cordially imparting my blessing. Since many of you are not members of the Catholic Church, and others are not believers, I cordially give this blessing silently, to each of you, respecting the conscience of each, but in the knowledge that each of you is a child of God. May God bless you!"
ROWLAND CROUCHER <rcroucher@gmail.com>
12/12/13
Reply
to me
Father Frank Brennan:

Now that's what I call a real blessing for journalists - and not a word of Vaticanese. Respect for the conscience of every person, regardless of their religious beliefs; silence in the face of difference; affirmation of the dignity and blessedness of every person; offering, not coercing; suggesting, not dictating; leaving room for gracious acceptance. These are all good pointers for us Catholics helping to form the Church of the twenty-first century holding the treasure of tradition, authority and ritual in trust for all the people of God, including your children and grandchildren, as we discern how best to make a home for God in our lives and in our world, assured that the Spirit of God has made her home with us.

http://www.abc.net.au/religion/articles/2013/11/13/3890038.htm 


~~

LIFE AFTER DEATH .... WHAT DO PEOPLE BELIEVE TODAY?

Nothing happens we come to the end of life  29%
Our soul passes to another world 34%
Our bodies await resurrection 8%
We come back as someone else (reincarnation) 12%
Trust God, we are all in God's hands 22%
(Peter Jupp and Tony Rogers, Interpreting Death: Christian Death and Pastoral Practice, London: Cassell, 1997, ch 11 )

TEENAGER

AS A TEENAGER IN A FUNDAMENTALIST CHURCH I COUNTED THE FORTUNATE ONES - CHRISTIANS WHO'D 'RECEIVED JESUS AS THEIR PERSONAL SAVIOUR' TOGETHER WITH ABORTED FOETUSES, THE HUGE NUMBER OF BABIES WHO DIED BEFORE/AT/SOON AFTER BIRTH, CHILDREN 'BEFORE THE AGE OF ACCOUNTABILITY' (IE. UNDER 12s), MILLIONS OF 'HEATHENS' (AS WE CALLED THEM),  THOSE WHO HAD LOW IQS... THE LIST GOES ON AND ON...

IVF CU PRESIDENT.   GO CRAZY


ORMSBY WILKINS

ORMSBY WILKINS -  6 NEWS COMMENTARY SPOTS 2UE
PUNISHMENT. CRIME
COOLING OFF
YOU CHRISTIANS - ENJOY HEAVEN. BEST - DON'T WANT TO GO THERE

ANCIENT BELIEFS ABOUT HEAVEN AND HELL. Sheol, Hades, Greek, Egyptian, Babylonian, Jewish ideas before Jesus. Paradise, Gehenna. Gates/keys of Hades.

Before the 'Christian Era' the Hebrew people had a developing view of the after-life. 'Sheol' in the more ancient writings simply referred to the grave, the  place of the dead. Later Jewish literature BCE developed the idea that the righteous and the wicked had differing experiences beyond the grave. When the Hebrew Scriptures were translated into Greek (the LXX), 'hades' was employed to translate 'sheol'. Another Hebrew word used in the Old Testament was 'gehenna' - referring originally to a valley on the south side of Jerusalem where burned sacrifices were offered to the pagan god Molech. And so in later Jewish writings 'Gehenna' became the place of God's final judgment, where the wicked 'gnashed their teeth', suffering from the fire and darkness. In the four Gospels, both 'hades' and 'gehenna' are used somewhat interchangeably to refer to the beyond-death destination of the hateful, unrepentant, disobedient wicked souls: both terms are associated with future judgment. Many graphic images describe the suffering of the wicked - 'eternal punishment', 'the fire that doesn't go out' , 'weeping and gnashing of teeth' etc. But some other terms - the verb 'destroy' and the image of burning - have been understood by some to imply annihilation...  (A good summary of all this can be found in the article 'Heaven and Hell' in the Dictionary of Jesus and the Gospels, Intervarsity Press, 1992, pp. 307 ff.)

(See Richard Bauckham, 'Hades, Hell', in Doubleday: The Anchor Bible Dictionary, 1992, Vol. 3, pp. 14-15. For a very interesting article on the notion of 'Descent to the Underworld', see Anchor Bible Dictionary, Vol. 2,  pp. 145 ff.).

RICH MAN & LAZARUS

ONLY PARABLE EXPLICITLY AFTER-LIFE.  + MT 25
   (BOTH SURPRISES). THIS IS THE ONLY PARABLE WHERE ONE OF THE CHARACTERS IS NAMED. SOME CONSERVATIVE SCHOLARS SUGGEST THESE PEOPLE WERE KNOWN TO JESUS AND HIS AUDIENCE (eg. Millard Erickson, Christian Theology, Vol. 2, Grand Rapids: Baker, 1984, p. 527).  But this is unlikely: the usual rabbinic formula used by Jesus in many of his parables: 'A certain man was...').

STORY: TWO PEOPLE WORLDS APART, EXCEPT FOR GEOGRAPHY. EACH IS DESCRIBED - THEN DEATHS IN REVERSE ORDER: STATUS IN AFTER-LIFE REVERSED. BEGGAR --- 'ABRAHAM'S BOSOM'; RICH MAN --- HADES (TRADITIONAL JEWISH NAMES FOR RIGHTEOUS AND WICKED DEAD).
UNBRIDGEABLE CHASM.
'THE RICH MAN PAYS ATTENTION TO LAZARUS TOO LATE, SEES THE UNBRIDGEABLE CHASM TOO LATE, WORRIES ABOUT HIS BROTHERS TOO LATE, AND HEEDS THE LAW AND PROPHETS TOO LATE' (Craig Blomberg, Interpreting the Parables, Apollos, 1990, p. 204).

SIMILAR STORIES - GREEK, EGYPTIAN AND JEWISH.

NOT PRIMARILY ABOUT AFTERLIFE --- PHARISEES LOVERS OF MONEY. We demonstrate by our attitudes to material possessions a proper or improper relationship with God. (After all, Abraham too was rich)

ALL PARABLES/TEACHING ON HELL - BELIEVERS (NOT BROWBEAT UNBELIEVERS)
GREEKS    EGYPTIANS    JEWS
NOT FURNITURE OF HEAVEN OR TEMPERATURE OF HELL

SERMON BISHOP 'ONLY ONE HERE DRESSED LIKE THIS MAN'
ROLE AFTERLIFE STILL GIVING ORDERS

SURPRISES  ::::

WEALTH BLESSING. POOR YOU AND/OR PARENTS SINNED
RICH MAN NOT UNFRIENDLY - BREAD CLEAN TEETH MOUTH

WHAT HAVE WE DONE WITH HELL

>> CSL  RATIONAL /  FREE WILL. WHAT ASKING GOD TO DO? YANK PEOPLE INTO HEAVEN IF THEY DON'T WANT TO GO THERE?
>> LIBERAL CATHOLICS - YES I BELIEVE IN THE REALITY OF HELL BUT DON'T HAVE TO BELIEVE ANY HUMAN IS ACTUALLY THERE.
>> COGNITIVE DISSONANCE -- GOOD GOD NOT TORTURE CREATURES FOREVER
>> TO HELL WITH HELL
>> SELECTIVE CUT OFF BODY PART SIN.  ORIGEN
>> METAPHOR EG. MOVE MTS. NOONE IN EARLY CHURCH MOVED A MOUNTAIN OR CUT OFF A BODY PART
>> GOD THE JUDGE OF ALL THE EARTH DO RIGHT .... ABRAHAM. GEN 18:16-32
>> PROVERBS 24:12 WILL GOD NOT RENDER TO EVERYONE ACCORDING TO THEIR DEEDS?

WHAT CAN WE SAY FOR CERTAIN?

 (IF JESUS IS SON OF GOD) :: THESE REALITIES -

A. CONTINUE CONSCIOUS  EXISTENCE BEYOND DEATH - INCLUDING AWARENESS OF SURROUNDINGS, MEMORY OF ONE'S PAST, A CAPACITY TO REASON, etc.

B. ACCOUNTABLE FOR HOW WE TREAT OTHERS

C. PAIN AND PLEASURE /// PUNISHMENT AND REWARD

D. NO ONE IS WITHOUT EXCUSE:  GOD'S WILL FOR US ABOUT COMPASSION FOR THE POOR HAS BEEN REVEALED TO US THROUGH ABRAHAM'S EXAMPLE, MOSES' LAW AND THE TEACHING OF THE PROPHETS.

ANNIHILATION    (JOHN STOTT).

C.S.Lewis: either we say to God 'Your will be done' and enter into Joy, or God says these same words to us and with infinite sadness lets us go back into the nothingness from which we came... Jesus - 'Jerusalem, Jerusalem...! How often have I desired to gather your children together as a hen gathers her brood under he wings, and you were not willing! (Matthew 23:37)

UNIVERSALISM

#  IF I AM LIFTED ABOVE THE EARTH I WILL DRAW EVERYONE TO MYSELF... (John 12:32)
# GOD IS NOT WILLING THAT ANYONE SHOULD PERISH....  (and Paul writes that in the end death, the last enemy of God, will be overcome. All evil will be swallowed up and God will become all in all, everything to everyone (1 Corinthians 15:26-28).
# AS IN ADAM ALL DIE SO ALL SHALL ALL BE MADE ALIVE IN CHRIST (1 Corinthians 15:22)
And if Christ prayed that those who rejected him when he was crucified might be forgiven, perhaps such merciful words might apply to all who have rejected him... then and since.

SO..... UNIVERSALIST?? ALL WILL BE SAVED?

I DON'T KNOW BUT I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED IF GOD IS...

####

BUT ALL THIS IS TO MISS THE MAIN POINT OF THE STORY.  IN A BRILLIANT SERMON ON THIS PARABLE HELMUT THIELICKE (THE WAITING FATHER, HARPER,  1959) SAYS 'IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER EVERY ONE OF US IS RICH AND SO EACH ONE OF US MUST FACE THE QUESTION ABOUT DESPISING OUR BROTHER LAZARUS, AND, IN OUR THINKING AT ANY RATE, BANISHING HIM TO THE BACK DOOR (MORE... EMAIL)

****

OTHER IDEAS

Auschwitz, Gulags, Killing Fields survivors - pose for us an urgent cosmic question - will Hitler/Stalin/Pol Pot get away with these horrors if there's an after-life? Jesus told as graphic story about this very question - and what happens when a person of wealth ignores the plight of a miserable, sick beggar.

There are four surprises here:

[1] It's possible to be religious/orthodox/ know your Bible and miss the whole point. Further: Sadducees and Pharisees both knew Moses and the Prophets but came to different conclusions about Resurrection and the after-life...

[2] It's also possible to know your sacred text but not obey it. Moses' law was quite specific about one's duty to care for the poor, widows, orphans, asylum-seekers/'aliens' etc. So Jesus is saying: 'You can have a Bible in your hand - even in your memory - and the poor at your back gate, and 'go to hell'.

[3] These Jewish leaders believed they were blessed with health and wealth by God. = God's favour. Lazarus - or his parents - must have done something very bad to be so unhealthy and poor. = God's judgment. And as for Jesus - he was despised by those religious folks for not having a home, or even a wallet with money in it, as he wandered around sometimes 'sleeping rough'.

[4]  The biggest surprise hit the rich man after he died. The judgment he received had nothing to do with his orthodoxy or lack of it, but what he did or did not do to help the poor man. Possessions = our object of desire/worship. Jesus' judgement-stories have this recurring theme (see especially the parable of the sheep and the goats, Matthew 25): 'When I was poor, hungry, naked, homeless etc. what did you do about it?' The poor man would likewise be condemned if he didn't help someone poorer.

(When you last voted... was it for those who campaigned on behalf of the deserving well-off or those 'social justice' people who emphasized our obligations towards the deserving poor and marginalized)?

The rich man (Dives as he was later called) was self-indulgent, living in luxury... Lazarus (the name means 'God is my helper') was so helpless he could not ward off the dogs. Rich folks in that culture ate with their hands, and cleaned their teeth/mouth with bread...

* * *

I like the present Pope's motto: Miserando atque eligendo: Lowly but chosen. True Christianity is not essentially a religion which appeals to the rich and proud, but to the humble and poor...

* * *

'unrighteous mammon' = filthy lucre --- belongs to this present world which is perishing

Most of the Pharisees still weren't convinced even though Christ rose from the dead.

We do have choices: and real consequences grow out of how we exercise our freedom.

* * *

Our freedom is God-given. Pure love is not coercive. 'Universalism may be a more loving form of determinism than than predestination, but it is still determinism... [But] Matthew 18:14 is my North Star when I search for my theological bearings: "It is not the will of your Father in heaven that one of these little ones should be lost." (John Claypool, Stories Jesus Still Tells, Cowley, 2000, pp. 145,6).

~~

HELL - SERMON/IDEAS

Q&R FIRST CHAPTER

LIFE AFTER DEATH .... WHAT DO PEOPLE BELIEVE TODAY?

Nothing happens we come to the end of life  29%
Our soul passes to another world 34%
Our bodies await resurrection 8%
We come back as someone else (reincarnation) 12%
Trust God, we are all in God's hands 22% 
(Peter Jupp and Tony Rogers, Interpreting Death: Christian Death and Pastoral Practice, London: Cassell, 1997, ch 11 )

TEENAGER

AS A TEENAGER IN A FUNDAMENTALIST CHURCH I COUNTED THE FORTUNATE ONES - CHRISTIANS WHO'D 'RECEIVED JESUS AS THEIR PERSONAL SAVIOUR' TOGETHER WITH ABORTED FOETUSES, THE HUGE NUMBER OF BABIES WHO DIED BEFORE/AT/SOON AFTER BIRTH, CHILDREN 'BEFORE THE AGE OF ACCOUNTABILITY' (IE. UNDER 12s), MILLIONS OF 'HEATHENS' (AS WE CALLED THEM),  THOSE WHO HAD LOW IQS... THE LIST GOES ON AND ON...

IVF CU PRESIDENT.   GO CRAZY


ORMSBY WILKINS

ORMSBY WILKINS -  6 NEWS COMMENTARY SPOTS 2UE
PUNISHMENT. CRIME
COOLING OFF
YOU CHRISTIANS - ENJOY HEAVEN. BEST - DON'T WANT TO GO THERE

ANCIENT BELIEFS ABOUT HEAVEN AND HELL. Sheol, Hades, Greek, Egyptian, Babylonian, Jewish ideas before Jesus. Paradise, Gehenna. Gates/keys of Hades. 

Before the 'Christian Era' the Hebrew people had a developing view of the after-life. 'Sheol' in the more ancient writings simply referred to the grave, the  place of the dead. Later Jewish literature BCE developed the idea that the righteous and the wicked had differing experiences beyond the grave. When the Hebrew Scriptures were translated into Greek (the LXX), 'hades' was employed to translate 'sheol'. Another Hebrew word used in the Old Testament was 'gehenna' - referring originally to a valley on the south side of Jerusalem where burned sacrifices were offered to the pagan god Molech. And so in later Jewish writings 'Gehenna' became the place of God's final judgment, where the wicked 'gnashed their teeth', suffering from the fire and darkness. In the four Gospels, both 'hades' and 'gehenna' are used somewhat interchangeably to refer to the beyond-death destination of the hateful, unrepentant, disobedient wicked souls: both terms are associated with future judgment. Many graphic images describe the suffering of the wicked - 'eternal punishment', 'the fire that doesn't go out' , 'weeping and gnashing of teeth' etc. But some other terms - the verb 'destroy' and the image of burning - have been understood by some to imply annihilation...  (A good summary of all this can be found in the article 'Heaven and Hell' in the Dictionary of Jesus and the Gospels, Intervarsity Press, 1992, pp. 307 ff.)  

(See Richard Bauckham, 'Hades, Hell', in Doubleday: The Anchor Bible Dictionary, 1992, Vol. 3, pp. 14-15. For a very interesting article on the notion of 'Descent to the Underworld', see Anchor Bible Dictionary, Vol. 2,  pp. 145 ff.).   

RICH MAN & LAZARUS

ONLY PARABLE EXPLICITLY AFTER-LIFE.  + MT 25
   (BOTH SURPRISES). THIS IS THE ONLY PARABLE WHERE ONE OF THE CHARACTERS IS NAMED. SOME CONSERVATIVE SCHOLARS SUGGEST THESE PEOPLE WERE KNOWN TO JESUS AND HIS AUDIENCE (eg. Millard Erickson, Christian Theology, Vol. 2, Grand Rapids: Baker, 1984, p. 527).  But this is unlikely: the usual rabbinic formula used by Jesus in many of his parables: 'A certain man was...'). 

STORY: TWO PEOPLE WORLDS APART, EXCEPT FOR GEOGRAPHY. EACH IS DESCRIBED - THEN DEATHS IN REVERSE ORDER: STATUS IN AFTER-LIFE REVERSED. BEGGAR --- 'ABRAHAM'S BOSOM'; RICH MAN --- HADES (TRADITIONAL JEWISH NAMES FOR RIGHTEOUS AND WICKED DEAD).
UNBRIDGEABLE CHASM.
'THE RICH MAN PAYS ATTENTION TO LAZARUS TOO LATE, SEES THE UNBRIDGEABLE CHASM TOO LATE, WORRIES ABOUT HIS BROTHERS TOO LATE, AND HEEDS THE LAW AND PROPHETS TOO LATE' (Craig Blomberg, Interpreting the Parables, Apollos, 1990, p. 204).

SIMILAR STORIES - GREEK, EGYPTIAN AND JEWISH. 

NOT PRIMARILY ABOUT AFTERLIFE --- PHARISEES LOVERS OF MONEY. We demonstrate by our attitudes to material possessions a proper or improper relationship with God. (After all, Abraham too was rich)

ALL PARABLES/TEACHING ON HELL - BELIEVERS (NOT BROWBEAT UNBELIEVERS)
GREEKS    EGYPTIANS    JEWS
NOT FURNITURE OF HEAVEN OR TEMPERATURE OF HELL

SERMON BISHOP 'ONLY ONE HERE DRESSED LIKE THIS MAN'
ROLE AFTERLIFE STILL GIVING ORDERS

SURPRISES  :::: 

WEALTH BLESSING. POOR YOU AND/OR PARENTS SINNED
RICH MAN NOT UNFRIENDLY - BREAD CLEAN TEETH MOUTH

WHAT HAVE WE DONE WITH HELL

>> CSL  RATIONAL /  FREE WILL. WHAT ASKING GOD TO DO? YANK PEOPLE INTO HEAVEN IF THEY DON'T WANT TO GO THERE?
>> LIBERAL CATHOLICS - YES I BELIEVE IN THE REALITY OF HELL BUT DON'T HAVE TO BELIEVE ANY HUMAN IS ACTUALLY THERE.
>> COGNITIVE DISSONANCE -- GOOD GOD NOT TORTURE CREATURES FOREVER
>> TO HELL WITH HELL
>> SELECTIVE CUT OFF BODY PART SIN.  ORIGEN
>> METAPHOR EG. MOVE MTS. NOONE IN EARLY CHURCH MOVED A MOUNTAIN OR CUT OFF A BODY PART
>> GOD THE JUDGE OF ALL THE EARTH DO RIGHT .... ABRAHAM. GEN 18:16-32
>> PROVERBS 24:12 WILL GOD NOT RENDER TO EVERYONE ACCORDING TO THEIR DEEDS?  

WHAT CAN WE SAY FOR CERTAIN? 

 (IF JESUS IS SON OF GOD) :: THESE REALITIES - 

A. CONTINUE CONSCIOUS  EXISTENCE BEYOND DEATH - INCLUDING AWARENESS OF SURROUNDINGS, MEMORY OF ONE'S PAST, A CAPACITY TO REASON, etc. 

B. ACCOUNTABLE FOR HOW WE TREAT OTHERS

C. PAIN AND PLEASURE /// PUNISHMENT AND REWARD

D. NO ONE IS WITHOUT EXCUSE:  GOD'S WILL FOR US ABOUT COMPASSION FOR THE POOR HAS BEEN REVEALED TO US THROUGH ABRAHAM'S EXAMPLE, MOSES' LAW AND THE TEACHING OF THE PROPHETS. 

ANNIHILATION    (JOHN STOTT). 

C.S.Lewis: either we say to God 'Your will be done' and enter into Joy, or God says these same words to us and with infinite sadness lets us go back into the nothingness from which we came... Jesus - 'Jerusalem, Jerusalem...! How often have I desired to gather your children together as a hen gathers her brood under he wings, and you were not willing! (Matthew 23:37)

UNIVERSALISM

#  IF I AM LIFTED ABOVE THE EARTH I WILL DRAW EVERYONE TO MYSELF... (John 12:32)
# GOD IS NOT WILLING THAT ANYONE SHOULD PERISH....  (and Paul writes that in the end death, the last enemy of God, will be overcome. All evil will be swallowed up and God will become all in all, everything to everyone (1 Corinthians 15:26-28).
# AS IN ADAM ALL DIE SO ALL SHALL ALL BE MADE ALIVE IN CHRIST (1 Corinthians 15:22)
And if Christ prayed that those who rejected him when he was crucified might be forgiven, perhaps such merciful words might apply to all who have rejected him... then and since. 

SO..... UNIVERSALIST?? ALL WILL BE SAVED? 

I DON'T KNOW BUT I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED IF GOD IS... 

####

BUT ALL THIS IS TO MISS THE MAIN POINT OF THE STORY.  IN A BRILLIANT SERMON ON THIS PARABLE HELMUT THIELICKE (THE WAITING FATHER, HARPER,  1959) SAYS 'IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER EVERY ONE OF US IS RICH AND SO EACH ONE OF US MUST FACE THE QUESTION ABOUT DESPISING OUR BROTHER LAZARUS, AND, IN OUR THINKING AT ANY RATE, BANISHING HIM TO THE BACK DOOR (MORE... EMAIL)

****

OTHER IDEAS

Auschwitz, Gulags, Killing Fields survivors - pose for us an urgent cosmic question - will Hitler/Stalin/Pol Pot get away with these horrors if there's an after-life? Jesus told as graphic story about this very question - and what happens when a person of wealth ignores the plight of a miserable, sick beggar. 

There are four surprises here:

[1] It's possible to be religious/orthodox/ know your Bible and miss the whole point. Further: Sadducees and Pharisees both knew Moses and the Prophets but came to different conclusions about Resurrection and the after-life...

[2] It's also possible to know your sacred text but not obey it. Moses' law was quite specific about one's duty to care for the poor, widows, orphans, asylum-seekers/'aliens' etc. So Jesus is saying: 'You can have a Bible in your hand - even in your memory - and the poor at your back gate, and 'go to hell'.

[3] These Jewish leaders believed they were blessed with health and wealth by God. = God's favour. Lazarus - or his parents - must have done something very bad to be so unhealthy and poor. = God's judgment. And as for Jesus - he was despised by those religious folks for not having a home, or even a wallet with money in it, as he wandered around sometimes 'sleeping rough'. 

[4]  The biggest surprise hit the rich man after he died. The judgment he received had nothing to do with his orthodoxy or lack of it, but what he did or did not do to help the poor man. Possessions = our object of desire/worship. Jesus' judgement-stories have this recurring theme (see especially the parable of the sheep and the goats, Matthew 25): 'When I was poor, hungry, naked, homeless etc. what did you do about it?' The poor man would likewise be condemned if he didn't help someone poorer. 

(When you last voted... was it for those who campaigned on behalf of the deserving well-off or those 'social justice' people who emphasized our obligations towards the deserving poor and marginalized)? 

The rich man (Dives as he was later called) was self-indulgent, living in luxury... Lazarus (the name means 'God is my helper') was so helpless he could not ward off the dogs. Rich folks in that culture ate with their hands, and cleaned their teeth/mouth with bread... 

* * *

I like the present Pope's motto: Miserando atque eligendo: Lowly but chosen. True Christianity is not essentially a religion which appeals to the rich and proud, but to the humble and poor...  

* * *

'unrighteous mammon' = filthy lucre --- belongs to this present world which is perishing

Most of the Pharisees still weren't convinced even though Christ rose from the dead. 
                          
We do have choices: and real consequences grow out of how we exercise our freedom.            

* * *

Our freedom is God-given. Pure love is not coercive. 'Universalism may be a more loving form of determinism than than predestination, but it is still determinism... [But] Matthew 18:14 is my North Star when I search for my theological bearings: "It is not the will of your Father in heaven that one of these little ones should be lost." (John Claypool, Stories Jesus Still Tells, Cowley, 2000, pp. 145,6).  

~~

IVF CU PRESIDENT.   GO CRAZY

ORMSBY WILKINS -  6 NEWS COMMENTARY SPOTS 2UE
PUNISHMENT. CRIME
COOLING OFF
YOU CHRISTIANS - ENJOY HEAVEN. BEST - DON'T WANT TO GO THERE

RICH MAN & LAZARUS
ONLY PARABLE EXPLICITLY AFTER-LIFE.  + MT 25
   (BOTH SURPRISES)
ALL PARABLES/TEACHING ON HELL - BELIEVERS (NOT BROWBEAT UNBELIEVERS

SURPRISES  :::: WEALTH BLESSING. POOR YOU AND/OR PARENTS SINNED
RICH MAN NOT UNFRIENDLY - BREAD CLEAN TEETH
ROLE AFTERLIFE STILL GIVING ORDERS

~~

WHAT HAVE WE DONE WITH HELL

>> COGNITIVE DISSONANCE -- GOOD GOD NOT TORTURE CREATURES FOREVER
>> SELECTIVE CUT OFF BODY PART SIN.  ORIGEN
>> METAPHOR EG. MOVE MTS
>> GOD THE JUDGE OF ALL THE EARTH DO RIGHT .... ABRAHAM. GEN 18:16-32
>> PROVERBS 24:12 WILL GOD NOT RENDER TO EVERYONE ACCORDING TO THEIR DEEDS?
>>

LIFE AFTER DEATH .... WHAT DO PEOPLE BELIEVE TODAY?

Nothing happens we come to the end of life  29%
Our soul passes to another world 34%
Our bodies await resurrection 8%
We come back as someone else (reincarnation) 12%
Trust God, we are all in God's hands 22%
(Peter Jupp and Tony Rogers, Interpreting Death: Christian Death and Pastoral Practice, London: Cassell, 1997, ch 11 )

TEENAGER

AS A TEENAGER IN A FUNDAMENTALIST CHURCH I COUNTED THE FORTUNATE ONES - CHRISTIANS WHO'D 'RECEIVED JESUS AS THEIR PERSONAL SAVIOUR' TOGETHER WITH ABORTED FOETUSES, THE HUGE NUMBER OF BABIES WHO DIED BEFORE/AT/SOON AFTER BIRTH, CHILDREN 'BEFORE THE AGE OF ACCOUNTABILITY' (IE. UNDER 12s), MILLIONS OF 'HEATHENS' (AS WE CALLED THEM),  THOSE WHO HAD LOW IQS... THE LIST GOES ON AND ON...

IVF CU PRESIDENT.   GO CRAZY


ORMSBY WILKINS

ORMSBY WILKINS -  6 NEWS COMMENTARY SPOTS 2UE
PUNISHMENT. CRIME
COOLING OFF
YOU CHRISTIANS - ENJOY HEAVEN. BEST - DON'T WANT TO GO THERE

RICH MAN & LAZARUS

ONLY PARABLE EXPLICITLY AFTER-LIFE.  + MT 25
   (BOTH SURPRISES). THIS IS THE ONLY PARABLE WHERE ONE OF THE CHARACTERS IS NAMED. SOME CONSERVATIVE SCHOLARS SUGGEST THESE PEOPLE WERE KNOWN TO JESUS AND HIS AUDIENCE (eg. Millard Erickson, Christian Theology, Vol. 2, Grand Rapids: Baker, 1984, p. 527).  But this is unlikely: the usual rabbinic formula used by Jesus in many of his parables: 'A certain man was...').

STORY: TWO PEOPLE WORLDS APART, EXCEPT FOR GEOGRAPHY. EACH IS DESCRIBED - THEN DEATHS IN REVERSE ORDER: STATUS IN AFTER-LIFE REVERSED. BEGGAR --- 'ABRAHAM'S BOSOM'; RICH MAN --- HADES (TRADITIONAL JEWISH NAMES FOR RIGHTEOUS AND WICKED DEAD).
UNBRIDGEABLE CHASM.
'THE RICH MAN PAYS ATTENTION TO LAZARUS TOO LATE, SEES THE UNBRIDGEABLE CHASM TOO LATE, WORRIES ABOUT HIS BROTHERS TOO LATE, AND HEEDS THE LAW AND PROPHETS TOO LATE' (Craig Blomberg, Interpreting the Parables, Apollos, 1990, p. 204).

SIMILAR STORIES - GREEK, EGYPTIAN AND JEWISH.

NOT PRIMARILY ABOUT AFTERLIFE --- PHARISEES LOVERS OF MONEY. We demonstrate by our attitudes to material possessions a proper or improper relationship with God. (After all, Abraham too was rich)

ALL PARABLES/TEACHING ON HELL - BELIEVERS (NOT BROWBEAT UNBELIEVERS)
GREEKS    EGYPTIANS    JEWS
NOT FURNITURE OF HEAVEN OR TEMPERATURE OF HELL

SERMON BISHOP 'ONLY ONE HERE DRESSED LIKE THIS MAN'
ROLE AFTERLIFE STILL GIVING ORDERS

SURPRISES  ::::

WEALTH BLESSING. POOR YOU AND/OR PARENTS SINNED
RICH MAN NOT UNFRIENDLY - BREAD CLEAN TEETH MOUTH

WHAT HAVE WE DONE WITH HELL

>> CSL  RATIONAL /  FREE WILL. WHAT ASKING GOD TO DO? YANK PEOPLE INTO HEAVEN IF THEY DON'T WANT TO GO THERE?
>> LIBERAL CATHOLICS - YES I BELIEVE IN THE REALITY OF HELL BUT DON'T HAVE TO BELIEVE ANY HUMAN IS ACTUALLY THERE.
>> COGNITIVE DISSONANCE -- GOOD GOD NOT TORTURE CREATURES FOREVER
>> TO HELL WITH HELL
>> SELECTIVE CUT OFF BODY PART SIN.  ORIGEN
>> METAPHOR EG. MOVE MTS. NOONE IN EARLY CHURCH MOVED A MOUNTAIN OR CUT OFF A BODY PART
>> GOD THE JUDGE OF ALL THE EARTH DO RIGHT .... ABRAHAM. GEN 18:16-32
>> PROVERBS 24:12 WILL GOD NOT RENDER TO EVERYONE ACCORDING TO THEIR DEEDS?

WHAT CAN WE SAY FOR CERTAIN?

 (IF JESUS IS SON OF GOD) :: THESE REALITIES -

A. CONTINUE CONSCIOUS  EXISTENCE BEYOND DEATH - INCLUDING AWARENESS OF SURROUNDINGS, MEMORY OF ONE'S PAST, A CAPACITY TO REASON, etc.

B. ACCOUNTABLE FOR HOW WE TREAT OTHERS

C. PAIN AND PLEASURE /// PUNISHMENT AND REWARD

D. NO ONE IS WITHOUT EXCUSE:  GOD'S WILL FOR US ABOUT COMPASSION FOR THE POOR HAS BEEN REVEALED TO US THROUGH ABRAHAM'S EXAMPLE, MOSES' LAW AND THE TEACHING OF THE PROPHETS.

ANNIHILATION    (JOHN STOTT).

C.S.Lewis: either we say to God 'Your will be done' and enter into Joy, or God says these same words to us and with infinite sadness lets us go back into the nothingness from which we came... Jesus - 'Jerusalem, Jerusalem...! How often have I desired to gather your children together as a hen gathers her brood under he wings, and you were not willing! (Matthew 23:37)

UNIVERSALISM

#  IF I AM LIFTED ABOVE THE EARTH I WILL DRAW EVERYONE TO MYSELF... (John 12:32)
# GOD IS NOT WILLING THAT ANYONE SHOULD PERISH....  (and Paul writes that in the end death, the last enemy of God, will be overcome. All evil will be swallowed up and God will become all in all, everything to everyone (1 Corinthians 15:26-28).
# AS IN ADAM ALL DIE SO ALL SHALL ALL BE MADE ALIVE IN CHRIST (1 Corinthians 15:22)
And if Christ prayed that those who rejected him when he was crucified might be forgiven, perhaps such merciful words might apply to all who have rejected him... then and since.

SO..... UNIVERSALIST?? ALL WILL BE SAVED?

I DON'T KNOW BUT I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED IF GOD IS...

####

BUT ALL THIS IS TO MISS THE MAIN POINT OF THE STORY.  IN A BRILLIANT SERMON ON THIS PARABLE HELMUT THIELICKE (THE WAITING FATHER, HARPER,  1959) SAYS 'IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER EVERY ONE OF US IS RICH AND SO EACH ONE OF US MUST FACE THE QUESTION ABOUT DESPISING OUR BROTHER LAZARUS, AND, IN OUR THINKING AT ANY RATE, BANISHING HIM TO THE BACK DOOR (MORE... EMAIL)

****

OTHER IDEAS

Auschwitz, Gulags, Killing Fields survivors - pose for us an urgent cosmic question - will Hitler/Stalin/Pol Pot get away with these horrors if there's an after-life? Jesus told as graphic story about this very question - and what happens when a person of wealth ignores the plight of a miserable, sick beggar.

There are four surprises here:

[1] It's possible to be religious/orthodox/ know your Bible and miss the whole point. Further: Sadducees and Pharisees both knew Moses and the Prophets but came to different conclusions about Resurrection and the after-life...

[2] It's also possible to know your sacred text but not obey it. Moses' law was quite specific about one's duty to care for the poor, widows, orphans, asylum-seekers/'aliens' etc. So Jesus is saying: 'You can have a Bible in your hand - even in your memory - and the poor at your back gate, and 'go to hell'.

[3] These Jewish leaders believed they were blessed with health and wealth by God. = God's favour. Lazarus - or his parents - must have done something very bad to be so unhealthy and poor. = God's judgment. And as for Jesus - he was despised by those religious folks for not having a home, or even a wallet with money in it, as he wandered around sometimes 'sleeping rough'.

[4]  The biggest surprise hit the rich man after he died. The judgment he received had nothing to do with his orthodoxy or lack of it, but what he did or did not do to help the poor man. Possessions = our object of desire/worship. Jesus' judgement-stories have this recurring theme (see especially the parable of the sheep and the goats, Matthew 25): 'When I was poor, hungry, naked, homeless etc. what did you do about it?' The poor man would likewise be condemned if he didn't help someone poorer.

(When you last voted... was it for those who campaigned on behalf of the deserving well-off or those 'social justice' people who emphasized our obligations towards the deserving poor and marginalized)?

The rich man (Dives as he was later called) was self-indulgent, living in luxury... Lazarus (the name means 'God is my helper') was so helpless he could not ward off the dogs. Rich folks in that culture ate with their hands, and cleaned their teeth/mouth with bread...

* * *

I like the present Pope's motto: Miserando atque eligendo: Lowly but chosen. True Christianity is not essentially a religion which appeals to the rich and proud, but to the humble and poor...

* * *

'unrighteous mammon' = filthy lucre --- belongs to this present world which is perishing

Most of the Pharisees still weren't convinced even though Christ rose from the dead.

We do have choices: and real consequences grow out of how we exercise our freedom.

* * *

Our freedom is God-given. Pure love is not coercive. 'Universalism may be a more loving form of determinism than than predestination, but it is still determinism... [But] Matthew 18:14 is my North Star when I search for my theological bearings: "It is not the will of your Father in heaven that one of these little ones should be lost." (John Claypool, Stories Jesus Still Tells, Cowley, 2000, pp. 145,6).

~~

LIFE AFTER DEATH .... WHAT DO PEOPLE BELIEVE TODAY?

Nothing happens we come to the end of life  29%
Our soul passes to another world 34%
Our bodies await resurrection 8%
We come back as someone else (reincarnation) 12%
Trust God, we are all in God's hands 22%
(Peter Jupp and Tony Rogers, Interpreting Death: Christian Death and Pastoral Practice, London: Cassell, 1997, ch 11 )

TEENAGER

AS A TEENAGER IN A FUNDAMENTALIST CHURCH I COUNTED THE FORTUNATE ONES - CHRISTIANS WHO'D 'RECEIVED JESUS AS THEIR PERSONAL SAVIOUR' TOGETHER WITH ABORTED FOETUSES, THE HUGE NUMBER OF BABIES WHO DIED BEFORE/AT/SOON AFTER BIRTH, CHILDREN 'BEFORE THE AGE OF ACCOUNTABILITY' (IE. UNDER 12s), MILLIONS OF 'HEATHENS' (AS WE CALLED THEM),  THOSE WHO HAD LOW IQS... THE LIST GOES ON AND ON...

IVF CU PRESIDENT.   GO CRAZY


ORMSBY WILKINS

ORMSBY WILKINS -  6 NEWS COMMENTARY SPOTS 2UE
PUNISHMENT. CRIME
COOLING OFF
YOU CHRISTIANS - ENJOY HEAVEN. BEST - DON'T WANT TO GO THERE

RICH MAN & LAZARUS

ONLY PARABLE EXPLICITLY AFTER-LIFE.  + MT 25
   (BOTH SURPRISES)

STORY: TWO PEOPLE WORLDS APART, EXCEPT FOR GEOGRAPHY. EACH IS DESCRIBED - THEN DEATHS IN REVERSE ORDER: STATUS IN AFTER-LIFE REVERSED. BEGGAR --- 'ABRAHAM'S BOSOM'; RICH MAN --- HADES (TRADITIONAL JEWISH NAMES FOR RIGHTEOUS AND WICKED DEAD).
UNBRIDGEABLE CHASM.
'THE RICH MAN PAYS ATTENTION TO LAZARUS TOO LATE, SEES THE UNBRIDGEABLE CHASM TOO LATE, WORRIES ABOUT HIS BROTHERS TOO LATE, AND HEEDS THE LAW AND PROPHETS TOO LATE' (Craig Blomberg, Interpreting the Parables, Apollos, 1990, p. 204).

SIMILAR STORIES - GREEK, EGYPTIAN AND JEWISH.

NOT PRIMARILY ABOUT AFTERLIFE --- PHARISEES LOVERS OF MONEY
ALL PARABLES/TEACHING ON HELL - BELIEVERS (NOT BROWBEAT UNBELIEVERS)
GREEKS    EGYPTIANS    JEWS
NOT FURNITURE OF HEAVEN OR TEMPERATURE OF HELL

SERMON BISHOP 'ONLY ONE HERE DRESSED LIKE THIS MAN'
ROLE AFTERLIFE STILL GIVING ORDERS

SURPRISES  ::::

WEALTH BLESSING. POOR YOU AND/OR PARENTS SINNED
RICH MAN NOT UNFRIENDLY - BREAD CLEAN TEETH MOUTH

WHAT HAVE WE DONE WITH HELL

>> CSL  RATIONAL /  FREE WILL. WHAT ASKING GOD TO DO? YANK PEOPLE INTO HEAVEN IF THEY DON'T WANT TO GO THERE?
>> LIBERAL CATHOLICS - YES I BELIEVE IN THE REALITY OF HELL BUT DON'T HAVE TO BELIEVE ANY HUMAN IS ACTUALLY THERE.
>> COGNITIVE DISSONANCE -- GOOD GOD NOT TORTURE CREATURES FOREVER
>> TO HELL WITH HELL
>> SELECTIVE CUT OFF BODY PART SIN.  ORIGEN
>> METAPHOR EG. MOVE MTS. NOONE IN EARLY CHURCH MOVED A MOUNTAIN OR CUT OFF A BODY PART
>> GOD THE JUDGE OF ALL THE EARTH DO RIGHT .... ABRAHAM. GEN 18:16-32
>> PROVERBS 24:12 WILL GOD NOT RENDER TO EVERYONE ACCORDING TO THEIR DEEDS?

WHAT CAN WE SAY FOR CERTAIN?

1. (IF JESUS IS SON OF GOD) :: THESE REALITIES -
A. CONTINUE CONSCIOUS  EXISTENCE BEYOND DEATH
B. ACCOUNTABLE FOR HOW WE TREAT OTHERS
C. PAIN AND PLEASURE /// PUNISHMENT AND REWARD

ANNIHILATION    (JOHN STOTT).

C.S.Lewis: either we say to God 'Your will be done' and enter into Joy, or God says these same words to us and with infinite sadness lets us go back into the nothingness from which we came... Jesus - 'Jerusalem, Jerusalem...! How often have I desired to gather your children together as a hen gathers her brood under he wings, and you were not willing! (Matthew 23:37)

UNIVERSALISM

#  IF I AM LIFTED ABOVE THE EARTH I WILL DRAW EVERYONE TO MYSELF... (John 12:32)
# GOD IS NOT WILLING THAT ANYONE SHOULD PERISH....  (and Paul writes that in the end death, the last enemy of God, will be overcome. All evil will be swallowed up and God will become all in all, everything to everyone (1 Corinthians 15:26-28).
# AS IN ADAM ALL DIE SO ALL SHALL ALL BE MADE ALIVE IN CHRIST (1 Corinthians 15:22)
And if Christ prayed that those who rejected him when he was crucified might be forgiven, perhaps such merciful words might apply to all who have rejected him... then and since.

SO..... UNIVERSALIST?? ALL WILL BE SAVED?

I DON'T KNOW BUT I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED IF GOD IS...

####

BUT ALL THIS IS TO MISS THE MAIN POINT OF THE STORY.  IN A BRILLIANT SERMON ON THIS PARABLE HELMUT THIELICKE (THE WAITING FATHER, HARPER,  1959) SAYS 'IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER EVERY ONE OF US IS RICH AND SO EACH ONE OF US MUST FACE THE QUESTION ABOUT DESPISING OUR BROTHER LAZARUS, AND, IN OUR THINKING AT ANY RATE, BANISHING HIM TO THE BACK DOOR (MORE... EMAIL)

****

OTHER IDEAS

Auschwitz, Gulags, Killing Fields survivors - pose for us an urgent cosmic question - will Hitler/Stalin/Pol Pot get away with these horrors if there's an after-life? Jesus told as graphic story about this very question - and what happens when a person of wealth ignores the plight of a miserable, sick beggar.

There are four surprises here:

[1] It's possible to be religious/orthodox/ know your Bible and miss the whole point. Further: Sadducees and Pharisees both knew Moses and the Prophets but came to different conclusions about Resurrection and the after-life...

[2] It's also possible to know your sacred text but not obey it. Moses' law was quite specific about one's duty to care for the poor, widows, orphans, asylum-seekers/'aliens' etc. So Jesus is saying: 'You can have a Bible in your hand - even in your memory - and the poor at your back gate, and 'go to hell'.

[3] These Jewish leaders believed they were blessed with health and wealth by God. = God's favour. Lazarus - or his parents - must have done something very bad to be so unhealthy and poor. = God's judgment. And as for Jesus - he was despised by those religious folks for not having a home, or even a wallet with money in it, as he wandered around sometimes 'sleeping rough'.

[4]  The biggest surprise hit the rich man after he died. The judgment he received had nothing to do with his orthodoxy or lack of it, but what he did or did not do to help the poor man. Possessions = our object of desire/worship. Jesus' judgement-stories have this recurring theme (see especially the parable of the sheep and the goats, Matthew 25): 'When I was poor, hungry, naked, homeless etc. what did you do about it?' The poor man would likewise be condemned if he didn't help someone poorer.

(When you last voted... was it for those who campaigned on behalf of the deserving well-off or those 'social justice' people who emphasized our obligations towards the deserving poor and marginalized)?

The rich man (Dives as he was later called) was self-indulgent, living in luxury... Lazarus (the name means 'God is my helper') was so helpless he could not ward off the dogs. Rich folks in that culture ate with their hands, and cleaned their teeth/mouth with bread...

* * *

I like the present Pope's motto: Miserando atque eligendo: Lowly but chosen. True Christianity is not essentially a religion which appeals to the rich and proud, but to the humble and poor...

* * *

'unrighteous mammon' = filthy lucre --- belongs to this present world which is perishing

Most of the Pharisees still weren't convinced even though Christ rose from the dead.

We do have choices: and real consequences grow out of how we exercise our freedom.

* * *

Our freedom is God-given. Pure love is not coercive. 'Universalism may be a more loving form of determinism than than predestination, but it is still determinism... [But] Matthew 18:14 is my North Star when I search for my theological bearings: "It is not the will of your Father in heaven that one of these little ones should be lost." (John Claypool, Stories Jesus Still Tells, Cowley, 2000, pp. 145,6).

~~

WHOEVER HEARD OF A BOOK BEGINNING WITH A CHAPTER ON HELL?

I REMEMBER A MAVERICK CHRISTIAN STUDENT LEADER BACK IN THE 1960s ARGUING THAT IF YOU REALLY BELIEVED IN THE EXISTENCE OF HELL YOU'D GO CRAZY WARNING PEOPLE...

BUT IT'S ONLY A FUNDAMENTALIST FRINGE THAT DOES THIS - WITH THEIR SOAP BOXES AND SANDWICH BOARDS AND PLACARDS.

SO THERE'S 'COGNITIVE DISSONANCE' AT WORK HERE. MOST THOUGHTFUL CHRISTIANS, WHEN THEY'RE HONEST, CAN'T REALLY BELIEVE A LOVING GOD WOULD ARRANGE THINGS SO THAT THE MAJORITY OF THE HUMAN RACE WOULD SUFFER IN AGONY FOREVER. AND EVER...

AS A TEENAGER IN A FUNDAMENTALIST CHURCH I COUNTED THE FORTUNATE ONES - CHRISTIANS WHO'D 'RECEIVED JESUS AS THEIR PERSONAL SAVIOUR' TOGETHER WITH ABORTED FOETUSES, THE HUGE NUMBER OF BABIES WHO DIED BEFORE/AT/SOON AFTER BIRTH, CHILDREN 'BEFORE THE AGE OF ACCOUNTABILITY' IE. UNDER 12s), MILLIONS OF 'HEATHENS' (AS WE CALLED THEM),  THOSE WHO HAD LOW IQS... THE LIST GOES ON AND ON...

MOST OF US WHO'D BEEN UNIVERSITY-TRAINED WERE TAUGHT TO COME TO OUR CONCLUSIONS  RATIONALLY: IN THE REAL - PHYSICAL - WORLD WE'D APPLY THE EVIDENCE-BASED SCIENTIFIC METHOD. SO IF... TSUNAMI WARN PEOPLE ON THE PROBABILITIES... OR (A BIT TRICKIER) CLIMATE CHANGE AND HOW IT WILL PROBABLY IMPACT CHILDREN'S CHILDREN...

BUT, HELL? WHO'S BEEN THERE AND COME BACK TO TELL US? WE'LL RETURN TO THAT QUESTION...

~~


HELL: NOTES FOR A SERMON ON LUKE 16:14-15, 19-31

(Q&R FIRST CHAPTER)

LIFE AFTER DEATH .... WHAT DO PEOPLE BELIEVE TODAY?

Nothing happens we come to the end of life  29%
Our soul passes to another world 34%
Our bodies await resurrection 8%
We come back as someone else (reincarnation) 12%
Trust God, we are all in God's hands 22%
(Peter Jupp and Tony Rogers, Interpreting Death: Christian Death and Pastoral Practice, London: Cassell, 1997, ch 11 )

TEENAGER

AS A TEENAGER IN A FUNDAMENTALIST CHURCH I COUNTED THE FORTUNATE ONES - CHRISTIANS WHO'D 'RECEIVED JESUS AS THEIR PERSONAL SAVIOUR' TOGETHER WITH ABORTED FOETUSES, THE HUGE NUMBER OF BABIES WHO DIED BEFORE/AT/SOON AFTER BIRTH, CHILDREN 'BEFORE THE AGE OF ACCOUNTABILITY' (IE. UNDER 12s), MILLIONS OF 'HEATHENS' (AS WE CALLED THEM),  THOSE WHO HAD LOW IQS... THE LIST GOES ON AND ON...

IVF CU PRESIDENT.   GO CRAZY


ORMSBY WILKINS


ORMSBY WILKINS -  6 NEWS COMMENTARY SPOTS 2UE
PUNISHMENT. CRIME
COOLING OFF
YOU CHRISTIANS - ENJOY HEAVEN. BEST - DON'T WANT TO GO THERE

~~~

WHAT HAVE WE DONE WITH HELL

>> CSL  RATIONAL /  FREE WILL. WHAT ASKING GOD TO DO? YANK PEOPLE INTO HEAVEN IF THEY DON'T WANT TO GO THERE?
>> LIBERAL CATHOLICS - YES I BELIEVE IN THE REALITY OF HELL BUT DON'T HAVE TO BELIEVE ANY HUMAN IS ACTUALLY THERE.
>> COGNITIVE DISSONANCE -- GOOD GOD NOT TORTURE CREATURES FOREVER
>> TO HELL WITH HELL
>> LITERAL? SELECTIVE CUT OFF BODY PART SIN.  ORIGEN
>> METAPHOR EG. MOVE MTS. NOONE IN EARLY CHURCH MOVED A MOUNTAIN OR CUT OFF A BODY PART
>> GOD THE JUDGE OF ALL THE EARTH DO RIGHT .... ABRAHAM. GEN 18:16-32
>> PROVERBS 24:12 WILL GOD NOT RENDER TO EVERYONE ACCORDING TO THEIR DEEDS?

ANNIHILATION    (JOHN STOTT)

UNIVERSALISM 
I DON'T KNOW BUT I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED IF GOD IS...

#  IF I AM LIFTED ABOVE THE EARTH I WILL DRAW EVERYONE TO MYSELF...
# GOD IS NOT WILLING THAT ANYONE SHOULD PERISH....
# AS IN ADAM ALL DIE SO IN CHRIST SHALL ALL BE MADE ALIVE...

SO..... UNIVERSALIST?? ALL WILL BE SAVED?

WHAT CAN WE SAY FOR CERTAIN?

1. (IF JESUS IS SON OF GOD) :: THESE REALITIES –

A. CONTINUE CONSCIOUS  EXISTENCE BEYOND DEATH
B. ACCOUNTABLE FOR HOW WE TREAT OTHERS
C. PAIN AND PLEASURE /// PUNISHMENT AND REWARD

****

RICH MAN & LAZARUS

ONLY PARABLE EXPLICITLY AFTER-LIFE.  + MT 25
   (BOTH SURPRISES)
NOT PRIMARILY ABOUT AFTERLIFE --- PHARISEES LOVERS OF MONEY
ALL PARABLES/TEACHING ON HELL
à BELIEVERS (NOT BROWBEAT UNBELIEVERS)
GREEKS    EGYPTIANS    JEWS
NOT FURNITURE OF HEAVEN OR TEMPERATURE OF HELL

THE STORY

(SERMON BISHOP 'ONLY ONE HERE DRESSED LIKE THIS MAN')
ROLE AFTERLIFE STILL GIVING ORDERS

SURPRISES  ::::

WEALTH BLESSING:: MATERIAL BLESSING = A SIGN OF RIGHTEOUSNESS. TO BE WEALTHY
POOR ::YOU AND/OR PARENTS SINNED
THE ‘PHARISEES WHO LOVED MONEY’ DESPISED JESUS’ POVERTY – NO HOME OF HIS OWN, NO VISIBLE MEANS OF SUPPORT, NO PURSE... HOW COULD SOMEONE LIKE THAT LAY CLAIM TO BE A HERALD OF GOD’S KINDOM?

RICH MAN NOT UNFRIENDLY - BREAD CLEAN TEETH MOUTH. DIDN’T DRIVE THE BEGGAR AWAY – JUST IGNORED HIM. BUT IN HELL THE ROLES ARE REVERSED, AND THE RICH MAN BECOMES A BEGGAR.

IN A BRILLIANT SERMON ON THIS PARABLE HELMUT THIELICKE (THE WAITING FATHER, HARPER,  1959, PP. 41 ff.) SAYS 'IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER EVERY ONE OF US IS RICH AND SO EACH ONE OF US MUST FACE THE QUESTION ABOUT DESPISING OUR BROTHER LAZARUS, AND, IN OUR THINKING AT ANY RATE, BANISHING HIM TO THE BACK DOOR.’

(PARAPHRASING...)

THE RICH MAN WAS BURIED AND GOES TO HELL, AND FROM THERE WATCHES HIS OWN FUNERAL... AND HEARS THE EULOGIES ABOUT WHAT A FINE UPSTANDING PERSON HE IS...

BUT IN HELL HE REALIZES IT’S NOT RICHES THAT BROUGHT THE RICH MAN TO HELL – AND THERE HE BEGINS TO PRAY... THE PAIN IN HELL IS THIS: TO BE FORCED TO SEE THE GLORY OF GOD AND HAVE NO ACCESS TO IT.

NOR WAS IT POVERTY THAT BROUGHT THE POOR MAN TO HEAVEN. WHEN THE BIBLE SPEAKS OF THE ‘POOR’ IT ALWAYS MEANS A SPECIAL KIND OF POVERTY. WHICH DOESN’T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH LACK OF MONEY. PEOPLE LIKE THE TAX COLLECTORS AND HARLOTS MIGHT HAVE HAD PLENTY OF MONEY, BUT MANY OF THEM RESPONDED TO JESUS’ INVITATION TO PUT THEIR TRUST AND SECURITY IN GOD’S WILL FOR THEIR LIVES. LAZARUS HAD ONLY ONE THING GOING FOR HIM: HE HAD NO IMPEDIMENTS TO TRUSTING IN GOD AND COUNTING ON GOD’S MERCY...

IN HEAVEN LAZARUS IS PERMITTED TO SEE WHAT HE BELIEVED, BUT THE RICH MAN IS COMPELLED TO SEE WHAT HE DID NOT BELIEVE. BUT IT’S TOO LATE. LAZARUS CAN’T COME TO HIM.

WHEN THIS PARABLE TALKS ABOUT HEAVEN AND HELL IT IS NOT CONCERNED WITH THE GEOGRAPHY OF THE HEREAFTER... BUT WITH THE GRAVITY OF ETERNITY AND THAT ONE DAY OUR LIFE-IN-PREPARATION FOR THE HEREAFTER WILL RUN OUT.

WE ARE ONE OF THE FIVE SIBLINGS OF THE RICH MAN. THAT’S THE MAIN POINT HERE....

DO NOT IMAGINE THAT A MESSENGER WILL COME FROM BEYOND AND CONFIRM WHAT IS SAID IN MOSES AND THE PROPHETS. JESUS WON’T NECESSARILY GIVE YOU A SIGN: THERE WILL BE NO APPEARING FROM THE DEAD; NO VOICE FROM HEAVEN; NO MIRACLE IN THE CLOUDS. NONE OF THESE WILL COME TO YOU – YOU WHO ARE ONE OF THE RICH MAN’S FIVE SIBLINGS. ‘WE HAVE ONLY THE WORD’ (CAPITAL ‘W’), ‘THE WORD MADE FLESH AND CRUCIFIED, THAT NAMELESSLY QUIET WORD WHICH CAME TO US IN ONE WHO WAS POOR AND DESPISED AS HIS BROTHER LAZARUS... AND LIKE HIS BROTHER LAZARUS, JESUS TOO LAY AT THE WORLD’S BACK DOOR WHEN HE WAS BORN IN A STABLE IN BETHLEHEM...’

JESUS TRIED OFTEN TO AVOID PUBLIC MIRACLES AND THAT’S WHY THE FIVE SIBLINGS, REPRESENTATIVES OF HUMANKIND, ARE NOT GRANTED, EVEN TODAY, THE MIRACULOUS SPECTACLE OF A MESSENGER FROM THE DEAD.

THAT HAS ALREADY HAPPENED. THE SIGN WAS A CROSS.

SO IF THE SIGN OF A RISEN CHRIST, AND THE TEACHING OF MOSES AND THE PROPHETS (AND THE APOSTLES) CAN’T PERSUADE US TO CARE FOR JESUS TODAY WHO IS POOR, WHAT ELSE WILL...??? 


 ~~

HELL - SERMON/IDEAS

Q&R FIRST CHAPTER

LIFE AFTER DEATH .... WHAT DO PEOPLE BELIEVE TODAY?

Nothing happens we come to the end of life  29%
Our soul passes to another world 34%
Our bodies await resurrection 8%
We come back as someone else (reincarnation) 12%
Trust God, we are all in God's hands 22%
(Peter Jupp and Tony Rogers, Interpreting Death: Christian Death and Pastoral Practice, London: Cassell, 1997, ch 11 )

TEENAGER

AS A TEENAGER IN A FUNDAMENTALIST CHURCH I COUNTED THE FORTUNATE ONES - CHRISTIANS WHO'D 'RECEIVED JESUS AS THEIR PERSONAL SAVIOUR' TOGETHER WITH ABORTED FOETUSES, THE HUGE NUMBER OF BABIES WHO DIED BEFORE/AT/SOON AFTER BIRTH, CHILDREN 'BEFORE THE AGE OF ACCOUNTABILITY' (IE. UNDER 12s), MILLIONS OF 'HEATHENS' (AS WE CALLED THEM),  THOSE WHO HAD LOW IQS... THE LIST GOES ON AND ON...

IVF CU PRESIDENT.   GO CRAZY


ORMSBY WILKINS

ORMSBY WILKINS -  6 NEWS COMMENTARY SPOTS 2UE
PUNISHMENT. CRIME
COOLING OFF
YOU CHRISTIANS - ENJOY HEAVEN. BEST - DON'T WANT TO GO THERE

RICH MAN & LAZARUS

ONLY PARABLE EXPLICITLY AFTER-LIFE.  + MT 25
   (BOTH SURPRISES)
NOT PRIMARILY ABOUT AFTERLIFE --- PHARISEES LOVERS OF MONEY
ALL PARABLES/TEACHING ON HELL - BELIEVERS (NOT BROWBEAT UNBELIEVERS)
GREEKS    EGYPTIANS    JEWS
NOT FURNITURE OF HEAVEN OR TEMPERATURE OF HELL

THE STORY

SERMON BISHOP 'ONLY ONE HERE DRESSED LIKE THIS MAN'
ROLE AFTERLIFE STILL GIVING ORDERS

SURPRISES  ::::

WEALTH BLESSING. POOR YOU AND/OR PARENTS SINNED
RICH MAN NOT UNFRIENDLY - BREAD CLEAN TEETH MOUTH

WHAT HAVE WE DONE WITH HELL

>> CSL  RATIONAL /  FREE WILL. WHAT ASKING GOD TO DO? YANK PEOPLE INTO HEAVEN IF THEY DON'T WANT TO GO THERE?
>> LIBERAL CATHOLICS - YES I BELIEVE IN THE REALITY OF HELL BUT DON'T HAVE TO BELIEVE ANY HUMAN IS ACTUALLY THERE.
>> COGNITIVE DISSONANCE -- GOOD GOD NOT TORTURE CREATURES FOREVER
>> TO HELL WITH HELL
>> SELECTIVE CUT OFF BODY PART SIN.  ORIGEN
>> METAPHOR EG. MOVE MTS. NOONE IN EARLY CHURCH MOVED A MOUNTAIN OR CUT OFF A BODY PART
>> GOD THE JUDGE OF ALL THE EARTH DO RIGHT .... ABRAHAM. GEN 18:16-32
>> PROVERBS 24:12 WILL GOD NOT RENDER TO EVERYONE ACCORDING TO THEIR DEEDS?

WHAT CAN WE SAY FOR CERTAIN?

1. (IF JESUS IS SON OF GOD) :: THESE REALITIES -
A. CONTINUE CONSCIOUS  EXISTENCE BEYOND DEATH
B. ACCOUNTABLE FOR HOW WE TREAT OTHERS
C. PAIN AND PLEASURE /// PUNISHMENT AND REWARD

ANNIHILATION    (JOHN STOTT)

UNIVERSALISM

#  IF I AM LIFTED ABOVE THE EARTH I WILL DRAW EVERYONE TO MYSELF...
# GOD IS NOT WILLING THAT ANYONE SHOULD PERISH....
# AS IN ADAM ALL DIE SO IN CHRIST SHALL ALL BE MADE ALIVE...

SO..... UNIVERSALIST?? ALL WILL BE SAVED?

I DON'T KNOW BUT I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED IF GOD IS...

####

BUT ALL THIS IS TO MISS THE MAIN POINT OF THE STORY.  IN A BRILLIANT SERMON ON THIS PARABLE HELMUT THIELICKE (THE WAITING FATHER, HARPER,  1959) SAYS 'IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER EVERY ONE OF US IS RICH AND SO EACH ONE OF US MUST FACE THE QUESTION ABOUT DESPISING OUR BROTHER LAZARUS, AND, IN OUR THINKING AT ANY RATE, BANISHING HIM TO THE BACK DOOR (MORE... EMAIL)

****

OTHER IDEAS

Auschwitz, Gulags, Killing Fields survivors - pose for us an urgent cosmic question - will Hitler/Stalin/Pol Pot get away with these horrors if there's an after-life? Jesus told as graphic story about this very question - and what happens when a person of wealth ignores the plight of a miserable, sick beggar.

There are four surprises here:

[1] It's possible to be religious/orthodox/ know your Bible and miss the whole point. Further: Sadducees and Pharisees both knew Moses and the Prophets but came to different conclusions about Resurrection and the after-life...

[2] It's also possible to know your sacred text but not obey it. Moses' law was quite specific about one's duty to care for the poor, widows, orphans, asylum-seekers/'aliens' etc. So Jesus is saying: 'You can have a Bible in your hand - even in your memory - and the poor at your back gate, and 'go to hell'.

[3] These Jewish leaders believed they were blessed with health and wealth by God. Lazarus - or his parents - must have done something very bad to be so unhealthy and poor. And as for Jesus - he was despised by those religious folks for not having a home, or even a wallet with money in it, as he wandered around sometimes 'sleeping rough'.

[4]  The biggest surprise hit the rich man after he died. The judgment he received had nothing to do with his orthodoxy or lack of it, but what he did or did not do to help the poor man. Jesus' judgement-stories have this recurring theme (see especially the parable of the sheep and the goats, Matthew 25): 'When I was poor, hungry, naked, homeless etc. what did you do about it?

(When you last voted... was it for those who campaigned on behalf of the deserving well-off or those 'social justice' people who emphasized our obligations towards the deserving poor and marginalized)?

The rich man (Dives as he was later called) was self-indulgent, living in luxury... Lazarus (the name means 'God is my helper') was so helpless he could not ward off the dogs. Rich folks in that culture ate with their hands, and cleaned their teeth/mouth with bread...

~~

HELL - SERMON/IDEAS

Q&R FIRST CHAPTER

LIFE AFTER DEATH .... WHAT DO PEOPLE BELIEVE TODAY?

Nothing happens we come to the end of life  29%
Our soul passes to another world 34%
Our bodies await resurrection 8%
We come back as someone else (reincarnation) 12%
Trust God, we are all in God's hands 22%
(Peter Jupp and Tony Rogers, Interpreting Death: Christian Death and Pastoral Practice, London: Cassell, 1997, ch 11 )

TEENAGER

AS A TEENAGER IN A FUNDAMENTALIST CHURCH I COUNTED THE FORTUNATE ONES - CHRISTIANS WHO'D 'RECEIVED JESUS AS THEIR PERSONAL SAVIOUR' TOGETHER WITH ABORTED FOETUSES, THE HUGE NUMBER OF BABIES WHO DIED BEFORE/AT/SOON AFTER BIRTH, CHILDREN 'BEFORE THE AGE OF ACCOUNTABILITY' (IE. UNDER 12s), MILLIONS OF 'HEATHENS' (AS WE CALLED THEM),  THOSE WHO HAD LOW IQS... THE LIST GOES ON AND ON...

IVF CU PRESIDENT.   GO CRAZY


ORMSBY WILKINS

ORMSBY WILKINS -  6 NEWS COMMENTARY SPOTS 2UE
PUNISHMENT. CRIME
COOLING OFF
YOU CHRISTIANS - ENJOY HEAVEN. BEST - DON'T WANT TO GO THERE

RICH MAN & LAZARUS

ONLY PARABLE EXPLICITLY AFTER-LIFE.  + MT 25
   (BOTH SURPRISES)
NOT PRIMARILY ABOUT AFTERLIFE --- PHARISEES LOVERS OF MONEY
ALL PARABLES/TEACHING ON HELL - BELIEVERS (NOT BROWBEAT UNBELIEVERS)
GREEKS    EGYPTIANS    JEWS
NOT FURNITURE OF HEAVEN OR TEMPERATURE OF HELL

THE STORY

SERMON BISHOP 'ONLY ONE HERE DRESSED LIKE THIS MAN'
ROLE AFTERLIFE STILL GIVING ORDERS

SURPRISES  ::::

WEALTH BLESSING. POOR YOU AND/OR PARENTS SINNED
RICH MAN NOT UNFRIENDLY - BREAD CLEAN TEETH MOUTH

WHAT HAVE WE DONE WITH HELL

>> CSL  RATIONAL /  FREE WILL. WHAT ASKING GOD TO DO? YANK PEOPLE INTO HEAVEN IF THEY DON'T WANT TO GO THERE?
>> LIBERAL CATHOLICS - YES I BELIEVE IN THE REALITY OF HELL BUT DON'T HAVE TO BELIEVE ANY HUMAN IS ACTUALLY THERE.
>> COGNITIVE DISSONANCE -- GOOD GOD NOT TORTURE CREATURES FOREVER
>> TO HELL WITH HELL
>> SELECTIVE CUT OFF BODY PART SIN.  ORIGEN
>> METAPHOR EG. MOVE MTS. NOONE IN EARLY CHURCH MOVED A MOUNTAIN OR CUT OFF A BODY PART
>> GOD THE JUDGE OF ALL THE EARTH DO RIGHT .... ABRAHAM. GEN 18:16-32
>> PROVERBS 24:12 WILL GOD NOT RENDER TO EVERYONE ACCORDING TO THEIR DEEDS?

WHAT CAN WE SAY FOR CERTAIN?

1. (IF JESUS IS SON OF GOD) :: THESE REALITIES -
A. CONTINUE CONSCIOUS  EXISTENCE BEYOND DEATH
B. ACCOUNTABLE FOR HOW WE TREAT OTHERS
C. PAIN AND PLEASURE /// PUNISHMENT AND REWARD

ANNIHILATION    (JOHN STOTT).

C.S.Lewis: either we say to God 'Your will be done' and enter into Joy, or God says these same words to us and with infinite sadness lets us go back into the nothingness from which we came... Jesus - 'Jerusalem, Jerusalem...! How often have I desired to gather your children together as a hen gathers her brood under he wings, and you were not willing! (Matthew 23:37)

UNIVERSALISM

#  IF I AM LIFTED ABOVE THE EARTH I WILL DRAW EVERYONE TO MYSELF... (John 12:32)
# GOD IS NOT WILLING THAT ANYONE SHOULD PERISH....  (and Paul writes that in the end death, the last enemy of God, will be overcome. All evil will be swallowed up and God will become all in all, everything to everyone (1 Corinthians 15:26-28).
# AS IN ADAM ALL DIE SO ALL SHALL ALL BE MADE ALIVE IN CHRIST (1 Corinthians 15:22)
And if Christ prayed that those who rejected him when he was crucified might be forgiven, perhaps such merciful words might apply to all who have rejected him... then and since.

SO..... UNIVERSALIST?? ALL WILL BE SAVED?

I DON'T KNOW BUT I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED IF GOD IS...

####

BUT ALL THIS IS TO MISS THE MAIN POINT OF THE STORY.  IN A BRILLIANT SERMON ON THIS PARABLE HELMUT THIELICKE (THE WAITING FATHER, HARPER,  1959) SAYS 'IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER EVERY ONE OF US IS RICH AND SO EACH ONE OF US MUST FACE THE QUESTION ABOUT DESPISING OUR BROTHER LAZARUS, AND, IN OUR THINKING AT ANY RATE, BANISHING HIM TO THE BACK DOOR (MORE... EMAIL)

****

OTHER IDEAS

Auschwitz, Gulags, Killing Fields survivors - pose for us an urgent cosmic question - will Hitler/Stalin/Pol Pot get away with these horrors if there's an after-life? Jesus told as graphic story about this very question - and what happens when a person of wealth ignores the plight of a miserable, sick beggar.

There are four surprises here:

[1] It's possible to be religious/orthodox/ know your Bible and miss the whole point. Further: Sadducees and Pharisees both knew Moses and the Prophets but came to different conclusions about Resurrection and the after-life...

[2] It's also possible to know your sacred text but not obey it. Moses' law was quite specific about one's duty to care for the poor, widows, orphans, asylum-seekers/'aliens' etc. So Jesus is saying: 'You can have a Bible in your hand - even in your memory - and the poor at your back gate, and 'go to hell'.

[3] These Jewish leaders believed they were blessed with health and wealth by God. = God's favour. Lazarus - or his parents - must have done something very bad to be so unhealthy and poor. = God's judgment. And as for Jesus - he was despised by those religious folks for not having a home, or even a wallet with money in it, as he wandered around sometimes 'sleeping rough'.

[4]  The biggest surprise hit the rich man after he died. The judgment he received had nothing to do with his orthodoxy or lack of it, but what he did or did not do to help the poor man. Possessions = our object of desire/worship. Jesus' judgement-stories have this recurring theme (see especially the parable of the sheep and the goats, Matthew 25): 'When I was poor, hungry, naked, homeless etc. what did you do about it?' The poor man would likewise be condemned if he didn't help someone poorer.

(When you last voted... was it for those who campaigned on behalf of the deserving well-off or those 'social justice' people who emphasized our obligations towards the deserving poor and marginalized)?

The rich man (Dives as he was later called) was self-indulgent, living in luxury... Lazarus (the name means 'God is my helper') was so helpless he could not ward off the dogs. Rich folks in that culture ate with their hands, and cleaned their teeth/mouth with bread...

* * *

I like the present Pope's motto: Miserando atque eligendo: Lowly but chosen. True Christianity is not essentially a religion which appeals to the rich and proud, but to the humble and poor...

* * *

'unrighteous mammon' = filthy lucre --- belongs to this present world which is perishing

Most of the Pharisees still weren't convinced even though Christ rose from the dead.

We do have choices: and real consequences grow out of how we exercise our freedom.

* * *

Our freedom is God-given. Pure love is not coercive. 'Universalism may be a more loving form of determinism than than predestination, but it is still determinism... [But] Matthew 18:14 is my North Star when I search for my theological bearings: "It is not the will of your Father in heaven that one of these little ones should be lost." (John Claypool, Stories Jesus Still Tells, Cowley, 2000, pp. 145,6).

~~

HELL

Q&R FIRST CHAPTER

LIFE AFTER DEATH .... WHAT DO PEOPLE BELIEVE TODAY?

Nothing happens we come to the end of life  29%
Our soul passes to another world 34%
Our bodies await resurrection 8%
We come back as someone else (reincarnation) 12%
Trust God, we are all in God's hands 22%
(Peter Jupp and Tony Rogers, Interpreting Death: Christian Death and Pastoral Practice, London: Cassell, 1997, ch 11 )

TEENAGER

AS A TEENAGER IN A FUNDAMENTALIST CHURCH I COUNTED THE FORTUNATE ONES - CHRISTIANS WHO'D 'RECEIVED JESUS AS THEIR PERSONAL SAVIOUR' TOGETHER WITH ABORTED FOETUSES, THE HUGE NUMBER OF BABIES WHO DIED BEFORE/AT/SOON AFTER BIRTH, CHILDREN 'BEFORE THE AGE OF ACCOUNTABILITY' (IE. UNDER 12s), MILLIONS OF 'HEATHENS' (AS WE CALLED THEM),  THOSE WHO HAD LOW IQS... THE LIST GOES ON AND ON...

IVF CU PRESIDENT.   GO CRAZY


ORMSBY WILKINS

ORMSBY WILKINS -  6 NEWS COMMENTARY SPOTS 2UE
PUNISHMENT. CRIME
COOLING OFF
YOU CHRISTIANS - ENJOY HEAVEN. BEST - DON'T WANT TO GO THERE

RICH MAN & LAZARUS

ONLY PARABLE EXPLICITLY AFTER-LIFE.  + MT 25
   (BOTH SURPRISES)
NOT PRIMARILY ABOUT AFTERLIFE --- PHARISEES LOVERS OF MONEY
ALL PARABLES/TEACHING ON HELL - BELIEVERS (NOT BROWBEAT UNBELIEVERS)
GREEKS    EGYPTIANS    JEWS
NOT FURNITURE OF HEAVEN OR TEMPERATURE OF HELL

THE STORY

SERMON BISHOP 'ONLY ONE HERE DRESSED LIKE THIS MAN'
ROLE AFTERLIFE STILL GIVING ORDERS

SURPRISES  ::::

WEALTH BLESSING. POOR YOU AND/OR PARENTS SINNED
RICH MAN NOT UNFRIENDLY - BREAD CLEAN TEETH MOUTH

WHAT HAVE WE DONE WITH HELL

>> CSL  RATIONAL /  FREE WILL. WHAT ASKING GOD TO DO? YANK PEOPLE INTO HEAVEN IF THEY DON'T WANT TO GO THERE?
>> LIBERAL CATHOLICS - YES I BELIEVE IN THE REALITY OF HELL BUT DON'T HAVE TO BELIEVE ANY HUMAN IS ACTUALLY THERE.
>> COGNITIVE DISSONANCE -- GOOD GOD NOT TORTURE CREATURES FOREVER
>> TO HELL WITH HELL
>> SELECTIVE CUT OFF BODY PART SIN.  ORIGEN
>> METAPHOR EG. MOVE MTS. NOONE IN EARLY CHURCH MOVED A MOUNTAIN OR CUT OFF A BODY PART
>> GOD THE JUDGE OF ALL THE EARTH DO RIGHT .... ABRAHAM. GEN 18:16-32
>> PROVERBS 24:12 WILL GOD NOT RENDER TO EVERYONE ACCORDING TO THEIR DEEDS?

WHAT CAN WE SAY FOR CERTAIN?

1. (IF JESUS IS SON OF GOD) :: THESE REALITIES -
A. CONTINUE CONSCIOUS  EXISTENCE BEYOND DEATH
B. ACCOUNTABLE FOR HOW WE TREAT OTHERS
C. PAIN AND PLEASURE /// PUNISHMENT AND REWARD

ANNIHILATION    (JOHN STOTT)

UNIVERSALISM

#  IF I AM LIFTED ABOVE THE EARTH I WILL DRAW EVERYONE TO MYSELF...
# GOD IS NOT WILLING THAT ANYONE SHOULD PERISH....
# AS IN ADAM ALL DIE SO IN CHRIST SHALL ALL BE MADE ALIVE...

SO..... UNIVERSALIST?? ALL WILL BE SAVED?

I DON'T KNOW BUT I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED IF GOD IS...

####

BUT ALL THIS IS TO MISS THE MAIN POINT OF THE STORY.  IN A BRILLIANT SERMON ON THIS PARABLE HELMUT THIELICKE (THE WAITING FATHER, HARPER,  1959) SAYS 'IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER EVERY ONE OF US IS RICH AND SO EACH ONE OF US MUST FACE THE QUESTION ABOUT DESPISING OUR BROTHER LAZARUS, AND, IN OUR THINKING AT ANY RATE, BANISHING HIM TO THE BACK DOOR (MORE... EMAIL)
~~


~~

HELL

Q&R FIRST CHAPTER

LIFE AFTER DEATH .... WHAT DO PEOPLE BELIEVE TODAY?

Nothing happens we come to the end of life  29%
Our soul passes to another world 34%
Our bodies await resurrection 8%
We come back as someone else (reincarnation) 12%
Trust God, we are all in God's hands 22%
(Peter Jupp and Tony Rogers, Interpreting Death: Christian Death and Pastoral Practice, London: Cassell, 1997, ch 11 )

TEENAGER

AS A TEENAGER IN A FUNDAMENTALIST CHURCH I COUNTED THE FORTUNATE ONES - CHRISTIANS WHO'D 'RECEIVED JESUS AS THEIR PERSONAL SAVIOUR' TOGETHER WITH ABORTED FOETUSES, THE HUGE NUMBER OF BABIES WHO DIED BEFORE/AT/SOON AFTER BIRTH, CHILDREN 'BEFORE THE AGE OF ACCOUNTABILITY' (IE. UNDER 12s), MILLIONS OF 'HEATHENS' (AS WE CALLED THEM),  THOSE WHO HAD LOW IQS... THE LIST GOES ON AND ON...

IVF CU PRESIDENT.   GO CRAZY


ORMSBY WILKINS

ORMSBY WILKINS -  6 NEWS COMMENTARY SPOTS 2UE
PUNISHMENT. CRIME
COOLING OFF
YOU CHRISTIANS - ENJOY HEAVEN. BEST - DON'T WANT TO GO THERE

RICH MAN & LAZARUS

ONLY PARABLE EXPLICITLY AFTER-LIFE.  + MT 25
   (BOTH SURPRISES)
NOT PRIMARILY ABOUT AFTERLIFE --- PHARISEES LOVERS OF MONEY
ALL PARABLES/TEACHING ON HELL - BELIEVERS (NOT BROWBEAT UNBELIEVERS)
GREEKS    EGYPTIANS    JEWS
NOT FURNITURE OF HEAVEN OR TEMPERATURE OF HELL

THE STORY

SERMON BISHOP 'ONLY ONE HERE DRESSED LIKE THIS MAN'
ROLE AFTERLIFE STILL GIVING ORDERS

SURPRISES  ::::

WEALTH BLESSING. POOR YOU AND/OR PARENTS SINNED
RICH MAN NOT UNFRIENDLY - BREAD CLEAN TEETH MOUTH

WHAT HAVE WE DONE WITH HELL

>> CSL  RATIONAL /  FREE WILL. WHAT ASKING GOD TO DO? YANK PEOPLE INTO HEAVEN IF THEY DON'T WANT TO GO THERE?
>> LIBERAL CATHOLICS - YES I BELIEVE IN THE REALITY OF HELL BUT DON'T HAVE TO BELIEVE ANY HUMAN IS ACTUALLY THERE.
>> COGNITIVE DISSONANCE -- GOOD GOD NOT TORTURE CREATURES FOREVER
>> TO HELL WITH HELL
>> SELECTIVE CUT OFF BODY PART SIN.  ORIGEN
>> METAPHOR EG. MOVE MTS. NOONE IN EARLY CHURCH MOVED A MOUNTAIN OR CUT OFF A BODY PART
>> GOD THE JUDGE OF ALL THE EARTH DO RIGHT .... ABRAHAM. GEN 18:16-32
>> PROVERBS 24:12 WILL GOD NOT RENDER TO EVERYONE ACCORDING TO THEIR DEEDS?

WHAT CAN WE SAY FOR CERTAIN?

1. (IF JESUS IS SON OF GOD) :: THESE REALITIES -
A. CONTINUE CONSCIOUS  EXISTENCE BEYOND DEATH
B. ACCOUNTABLE FOR HOW WE TREAT OTHERS
C. PAIN AND PLEASURE /// PUNISHMENT AND REWARD

ANNIHILATION    (JOHN STOTT)

UNIVERSALISM

#  IF I AM LIFTED ABOVE THE EARTH I WILL DRAW EVERYONE TO MYSELF...
# GOD IS NOT WILLING THAT ANYONE SHOULD PERISH....
# AS IN ADAM ALL DIE SO IN CHRIST SHALL ALL BE MADE ALIVE...

SO..... UNIVERSALIST?? ALL WILL BE SAVED?

I DON'T KNOW BUT I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED IF GOD IS...

~~

LIFE AFTER DEATH .... WHAT DO PEOPLE BELIEVE TODAY?

Nothing happens we come to the end of life  29%
Our soul passes to another world 34%
Our bodies await resurrection 8%
We come back as someone else (reincarnation) 12%
Trust God, we are all in God's hands 22%
(Peter Jupp and Tony Rogers, Interpreting Death: Christian Death and Pastoral Practice, London: Cassell, 1997, ch 11 )

TEENAGER

AS A TEENAGER IN A FUNDAMENTALIST CHURCH I COUNTED THE FORTUNATE ONES - CHRISTIANS WHO'D 'RECEIVED JESUS AS THEIR PERSONAL SAVIOUR' TOGETHER WITH ABORTED FOETUSES, THE HUGE NUMBER OF BABIES WHO DIED BEFORE/AT/SOON AFTER BIRTH, CHILDREN 'BEFORE THE AGE OF ACCOUNTABILITY' IE. UNDER 12s), MILLIONS OF 'HEATHENS' (AS WE CALLED THEM),  THOSE WHO HAD LOW IQS... THE LIST GOES ON AND ON...

IVF CU PRESIDENT.   GO CRAZY


ORMSBY WILKINS

ORMSBY WILKINS -  6 NEWS COMMENTARY SPOTS 2UE
PUNISHMENT. CRIME
COOLING OFF
YOU CHRISTIANS - ENJOY HEAVEN. BEST - DON'T WANT TO GO THERE

RICH MAN & LAZARUS

ONLY PARABLE EXPLICITLY AFTER-LIFE.  + MT 25
   (BOTH SURPRISES)
ALL PARABLES/TEACHING ON HELL - BELIEVERS (NOT BROWBEAT UNBELIEVERS

THE STORY

SERMON BISHOP 'ONLY ONE HERE DRESSED LIKE THIS MAN'
ROLE AFTERLIFE STILL GIVING ORDERS

SURPRISES  ::::

WEALTH BLESSING. POOR YOU AND/OR PARENTS SINNED
RICH MAN NOT UNFRIENDLY - BREAD CLEAN TEETH MOUTH

WHAT HAVE WE DONE WITH HELL

>> CSL  RATIONAL /  FREE WILL. WHAT ASKING GOD TO DO? YANK PEOPLE INTO HEAVEN IF THEY DON'T WANT TO GO THERE?
>> LIBERAL CATHOLICS - YES I BELIEVE IN THE REALITY OF HELL BUT DON'T HAVE TO BELIEVE ANY HUMAN IS ACTUALLY THERE.
>> COGNITIVE DISSONANCE -- GOOD GOD NOT TORTURE CREATURES FOREVER
>> TO HELL WITH HELL
>> SELECTIVE CUT OFF BODY PART SIN.  ORIGEN
>> METAPHOR EG. MOVE MTS. NOONE IN EARLY CHURCH MOVED A MOUNTAIN OR CUT OFF A BODY PART
>> GOD THE JUDGE OF ALL THE EARTH DO RIGHT .... ABRAHAM. GEN 18:16-32
>> PROVERBS 24:12 WILL GOD NOT RENDER TO EVERYONE ACCORDING TO THEIR DEEDS?

WHAT CAN WE SAY FOR CERTAIN?

1. (IF JESUS IS SON OF GOD) :: THESE REALITIES -
A. CONTINUE CONSCIOUS  EXISTENCE BEYOND DEATH
B. ACCOUNTABLE FOR HOW WE TREAT OTHERS
C. PAIN AND PLEASURE /// PUNISHMENT AND REWARD

THESE SCRIPTURES: IF I AM LIFTED ABOVE THE EARTH I WILL DRAW EVERYONE TO MYSELF... GOD IS NOT WILLING THAT ANYONE SHOULD PERISH.... AS IN ADAM ALL DIE SO IN CHRIST SHALL ALL BE MADE ALIVE...

SO..... UNIVERSALIST?? ALL WILL BE SAVED?
I DON'T KNOW BUT I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED IF GOD IS...

~~

HELL

Q&R

IVF CU PRESIDENT.   GO CRAZY

ORMSBY WILKINS -  6 NEWS COMMENTARY SPOTS 2UE
PUNISHMENT. CRIME
COOLING OFF
YOU CHRISTIANS - ENJOY HEAVEN. BEST - DON'T WANT TO GO THERE

RICH MAN & LAZARUS
ONLY PARABLE EXPLICITLY AFTER-LIFE.  + MT 25
   (BOTH SURPRISES)
ALL PARABLES/TEACHING ON HELL - BELIEVERS (NOT BROWBEAT UNBELIEVERS

SURPRISES  :::: WEALTH BLESSING. POOR YOU AND/OR PARENTS SINNED
RICH MAN NOT UNFRIENDLY - BREAD CLEAN TEETH
ROLE AFTERLIFE STILL GIVING ORDERS



WHAT HAVE WE DONE WITH HELL

>> CSL  RATIONAL /  FREE WILL. WHAT ASKING GOD TO DO? YANK PEOPLE INTO HEAVEN IF THEY DON'T WANT TO GO THERE?
>> LIBERAL CATHOLICS - YES I BELIEVE IN THE REALITY OF HELL BUT DON'T HAVE TO BELIEVE ANY HUMAN IS ACTUALLY THERE.
>> COGNITIVE DISSONANCE -- GOOD GOD NOT TORTURE CREATURES FOREVER
>> TO HELL WITH HELL
>> SELECTIVE CUT OFF BODY PART SIN.  ORIGEN
>> METAPHOR EG. MOVE MTS. NOONE IN EARLY CHURCH MOVED A MOUNTAIN OR CUT OFF A BODY PART
>> GOD THE JUDGE OF ALL THE EARTH DO RIGHT .... ABRAHAM. GEN 18:16-32
>> PROVERBS 24:12 WILL GOD NOT RENDER TO EVERYONE ACCORDING TO THEIR DEEDS?
>>
WHAT CAN WE SAY FOR CERTAIN?
1. (IF JESUS IS SON OF GOD) :: THESE REALITIES -
A. CONTINUE CONSCIOUS  EXISTENCE BEYOND DEATH
B. ACCOUNTABLE FOR HOW WE TREAT OTHERS
C. PAIN AND PLEASURE /// PUNISHMENT AND REWARD

THESE SCRIPTURES: IF I AM LIFTED ABOVE THE EARTH I WILL DRAW EVERYONE TO MYSELF... GOD IS NOT WILLING THAT ANYONE SHOULD PERISH.... AS IN ADAM ALL DIE SO IN CHRIST SHALL ALL BE MADE ALIVE...

SO..... UNIVERSALIST?? ALL WILL BE SAVED?
I DON'T KNOW BUT I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED IF GOD IS...
~~


Q&R IDEAS

WHOEVER HEARD OF A BOOK BEGINNING WITH A CHAPTER ON HELL?

STUDENT LEADER

I REMEMBER A MAVERICK CHRISTIAN STUDENT LEADER BACK IN THE 1960s ARGUING THAT IF YOU REALLY BELIEVED IN THE EXISTENCE OF HELL YOU'D GO CRAZY WARNING PEOPLE...

BUT IT'S ONLY A FUNDAMENTALIST FRINGE THAT DOES THIS - WITH THEIR SOAP BOXES AND SANDWICH BOARDS AND PLACARDS.

SO THERE'S 'COGNITIVE DISSONANCE' AT WORK HERE. MOST THOUGHTFUL CHRISTIANS, WHEN THEY'RE HONEST, CAN'T REALLY BELIEVE A LOVING GOD WOULD ARRANGE THINGS SO THAT THE MAJORITY OF THE HUMAN RACE WOULD SUFFER IN AGONY FOREVER. AND EVER...

TEENAGER

AS A TEENAGER IN A FUNDAMENTALIST CHURCH I COUNTED THE FORTUNATE ONES - CHRISTIANS WHO'D 'RECEIVED JESUS AS THEIR PERSONAL SAVIOUR' TOGETHER WITH ABORTED FOETUSES, THE HUGE NUMBER OF BABIES WHO DIED BEFORE/AT/SOON AFTER BIRTH, CHILDREN 'BEFORE THE AGE OF ACCOUNTABILITY' IE. UNDER 12s), MILLIONS OF 'HEATHENS' (AS WE CALLED THEM),  THOSE WHO HAD LOW IQS... THE LIST GOES ON AND ON...

MOST OF US WHO'D BEEN UNIVERSITY-TRAINED WERE TAUGHT TO COME TO OUR CONCLUSIONS  RATIONALLY: IN THE REAL - PHYSICAL - WORLD WE'D APPLY THE EVIDENCE-BASED SCIENTIFIC METHOD. SO IF... TSUNAMI WARN PEOPLE ON THE PROBABILITIES... OR (A BIT TRICKIER) CLIMATE CHANGE AND HOW IT WILL PROBABLY IMPACT CHILDREN'S CHILDREN...

BUT, HELL? WHO'S BEEN THERE AND COME BACK TO TELL US? WE'LL RETURN TO THAT QUESTION...

~~

 * A toothless reprobate challenged a hell-fire-preacher about his
views on hell. If there's gnashing of teeth in hell, what will happen
to those who have no teeth? "Teeth will be provided' was his answer...

~~



Can we hope for life beyond death?

Stanley HauerwasABC RELIGION AND ETHICS14 APR 2014

Hope in life beyond death is made possible, not by sentimental belief in life after death, but by participation in Christ's life. Life must be viewed as a gift, not a "right" to which we are entitled.
HOPE IN LIFE BEYOND DEATH IS MADE POSSIBLE, NOT BY SENTIMENTAL BELIEF IN LIFE AFTER DEATH, BUT BY PARTICIPATION IN CHRIST’S LIFE. LIFE MUST BE VIEWED AS A GIFT, NOT A “RIGHT” TO WHICH WE ARE ENTITLED.

Stanley Hauerwas delivered the following sermon at St. Thomas’s Episcopal Church, Fort Washington, Pennsylvania. The readings for the day were Ezekiel 37:1-14; Psalm 130; Romans 8:6-11; and John 11: 1-44.

At the beginning of Lent, we were told that we are dust and to dust we shall return. Emblazoned with ashes on our foreheads we were reminded that ours is a cruciform faith. I always find it odd that some characterize Christianity as an escapist faith because we allegedly deny the grim character of life. I cannot imagine a more realistic faith than the Christian faith. At every turn, we are told we are death-determined creatures and that our lives, our all too brief lives, at the very least will be complex if not difficult.

Even our readings for today are drenched in death. You might doubt this claim, however. I am sure, like me, when you heard the reading from Ezekiel 37 you could not resist recalling the familiar refrain, “Dem bones, dem bones, them dry bones, gon’ rise again.” That song seems to suggest that Ezekiel’s vision is not about death, but rather about the overcoming of death through the prophetic word. The bones are reunited by the sinews of the prophetic word. They are given breath by the prophet’s calling on the four winds to give life. Surely this is about life, not death.

But ask yourself, what must have happened for such a valley of dry bones to exist? This is a horrible image. A valley filled with skulls and bones so scattered that there is no clear indication of which arm belongs to which body. The valley is no cemetery. The valley is a site of massacre. That is why these bones are described as the bones of the slain. These folk did not die a natural death. They were slaughtered. These are the bones of those who have died a meaningless death in a country that is not their country. These bones may be brought back to life, but death – death in a foreign land – was and will be again their fate.

Yet surely, you may object, the story of the raising of Lazarus is not drenched with death (John 11:1-44). The very description – “the raising of Lazarus” – suggests this is a story about the triumph of life over death. To be sure, Jesus raises Lazarus from the dead, but Lazarus’s reprieve will not last long. This is the resuscitation of a corpse, but Lazarus will not be spared death. Lazarus may be one of the most unfortunate of human beings to have ever existed. He will have to die twice. What good is that? His second death is still to come, but he must now experience life having already tasted death.

Jesus makes clear in every exchange he has regarding Lazarus’s death that this miracle is not about Lazarus – it is about Jesus. If we fail to note that this is primarily about Jesus, we will miss some of the oddities of the text. For example, we are told that Lazarus was someone that Jesus loved. But when Jesus is told that Lazarus was sick – indeed, he was so sick he might die – Jesus “stayed two days longer in the place where he was.” It seems that Jesus, who says Lazarus’s illness is “not unto death,” but rather is for “God’s glory, so that the Son of God may be glorified trough it,” is in no hurry to help Lazarus. He waits two days before moving to Judea where Lazarus lives because he seems to want to make sure that when he arrives there will be no question that Lazarus is dead.

We dare not miss, moreover, that the trip to Lazarus’s home in Judea is a journey fraught with danger and, as it turns out, death. Jesus tells his disciples that it is time to go to Judea, but the disciples suggest to him that this is not a good idea. To go to Judea is to make oneself vulnerable to being arrested and killed by those in Judaism that find him to be a threat. To go to Judea is to enter again the politics of the world, and the politics of the world is a politics determined by the fear of death. Yet Jesus says he is going to make this journey through death because Lazarus has “fallen asleep.”

The disciples find that a hopeful description. If Lazarus has only fallen asleep, then he may recover without the help of Jesus. If Lazarus is only sick, they can stay where they are and not risk the death that awaits them in Jerusalem. And so Jesus tells them plainly that “Lazarus is dead.” He must go to Judea and the disciples must follow. The disciples are in the process of learning that there is no alternative. They must follow Jesus to Judea – “Let us go, that we may also die with him.”

Arriving at Bethany, Jesus is met by Martha. She tells Jesus that if he had been there Lazarus would not have died. We do not know why Martha thought Jesus could have saved Lazarus, but all we need to know is that Martha believes Jesus could have saved Lazarus from dying. Jesus seems to underwrite Martha’s understanding of his power, but again a mistake seems to have been made. Martha responds to Jesus’s claim that Lazarus will be raised saying they know that all will rise again on the last day. Jesus, however, is not in the least interested in such 
speculative accounts of life beyond death. Instead, he tells Martha, “I am the resurrection and the life. Those who believe in me, even though they die, will live, and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?”

Martha responds with an enthusiastic avowal that she understands that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, who is coming into the world, but she clearly does not “get it.” Mary joins Martha in the exchange with Jesus, but that only results in further speculation about what would have happened to Lazarus if Jesus had been there. Jesus is, as we say in the South, none too pleased by the ongoing discussion about what difference his “being there” might have made. We are told he was “greatly disturbed in spirit and deeply moved” and even shed tears. Whether they were tears of sadness or of frustration, we cannot tell. What we know for sure is that he raised Lazarus – whose body had already begun to rot – from the grave. He commanded them to unbind the cloth that held him and to “let him go.”

Again, we are tempted to see Lazarus being given new life as the climax of this event. But Lazarus, like you and me, still awaits death. The ever-present reality of death – our deaths – is something that we surround with a shroud of silence. Notice, for example, how difficult it is for us to talk candidly with the gravely ill about their approaching death. We say we do not want to rob them of hope, but in fact we do not want to confront their death. We do not want to acknowledge they are dying because we do not know what we should say. Death threatens our speech with futility because death is not just a biological event – it is a reality we fear may rob our living of any significance.

Our difficulty with comprehending our death and the death of others has resulted in what William May has astutely identified as the pornographic character of death in our culture. The pornography of sex is the depiction of sex abstracted from the human emotions that save sex from reduction to technical gymnastic skills that finally cannot escape being boring. When sex becomes separated from the intimacy that a history of faithfulness has made possible, all that is left is speculative possibilities about what might be done with how many. In a similar fashion, when death is abstracted from human emotion, all that is left are the infinite possibilities of killing as many as possible in ever increasing imaginative ways. Death, particularly as displayed in movies and video games, reflects our loss of the relation of death and grief.

Or consider how death is reported in the news. Those that produce the news seem to know that we have a morbid desire to know how someone died because, as Tolstoy observed, a passion for finding the “cause” of someone else’s death can be a way of satisfying ourselves that they died accidentally or fortuitously by virtue of special circumstances affecting the one who died (but not me). It seems that we are at once obsessed by death while striving in every way possible to conceal its power over our lives. Accordingly, we ask those charged to care for us when we are ill to do everything they can to get us out of life alive. This is yet another form of self-protection, as it means we then get to blame health care providers for any miseries related to keeping us alive at all costs.

Yet the reality of our deaths is hard to repress for a life time. I am seventy-three. I am beginning to realize that death is not just a theoretical possibility – even for me. One strategy for dealing with our impending deaths is expressed in Martha’s presumption that death can be comprehended by a general theory about life after death. Martha believed that we are all slated to rise at a specific time. Most of us believe that we possess some aspect of eternity that will insure some kind of survival beyond death. The only problem with those strategies is they forget that only God is eternal. We are finite.

Jesus does not say that we are eternal. Rather he says, “I am the resurrection and the life. Those who believe in me, even though they die, will live, and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die.” Rather than supplying us with a theory to satisfy our longing for life after death, Jesus asks us to follow him to Judea where we will face those that would kill us for refusing to live as though death can be fought off through violence.

If Christian hope amounts to little more than an expectation that everything is going to be alright in the end, then Christian faith will not be powerful enough to resist the impulse to defend life by enacting violence. Our hope in life beyond death is a hope made possible, not by some general sentimental belief in life after death, but by our participation in the life of Christ. This is why life must always be viewed fundamentally as a gift and not a “right” to which we are entitled. We cannot participate in “rights” – we can only exercise them in self-destructive ways.

Such a participation is surely what Paul meant by contrasting our life in the Spirit with that of the flesh (Romans 8:6-11). Paul’s contrast between the Spirit and the flesh is not a contrast between the ephemeral and the material. Life in the Spirit is a fleshly life if it is the flesh of Christ’s body. That flesh, the flesh of Christ’s body, is the flesh animated by the Spirit. Paul, therefore, says that to set the mind on the flesh – a flesh that is not Christ’s – is death, but to set our minds on the Spirit is life and peace. That the Spirit for Paul produces peace is an indication that this miracle is about the formation of a people who Paul believes can make a difference in the world of violence.

The Spirit is a body. We call that body “the body of Christ.” That same Spirit is the agent that through baptism joins us to Christ’s resurrected body, gathering our dry bones and enlivening them unto the One through whom and for whom we are made. This is the life – life with Christ – made possible in the Spirit who insures that, whatever death lies before us, we will not die alone. It is this shared hope that gathers and sends us out courageously to follow Jesus on the way to Jerusalem.

As we approach ever closer to Easter, let us not forget that it is only by our hope in the One who goes before us that we may look upon his death and participate in his singular victory over our own death. May we no longer cling to the frail theories that offer little hope to a world enslaved to the fear of death. Instead, let us cling to the Lord Jesus Christwho by his life, death and resurrection remains the only hope we have that our bones will be reunited in common worship of the one true God.

Stanley Hauerwas is Senior Research Fellow at the Duke University Divinity School. His most recent books areApproaching the End: Eschatological Reflections on Church, Politics and Life and Without Apology: Sermons for Christ’s Church.


No comments:

Post a Comment